So, I've been trying to think what I can do with my Lilith army to make it more 'generally' good. Out of the box, in my few games of experience, she's certainly been solid, and fun to play, but I find that not only is she fairly one-dimensional (get stuff into combat, make Nephilim bigger), she also has some pretty serious holes in her attack. So, I decided to see what sort of things I could take with her at 35 Soulstones, which seems to be a fairly normal size for games.
Using the handy Malifaux crew creator, I came up with this:
Neverborn Crew - 35 - Scrap
Lilith, Mother of Monsters -- 5 Pool
Lelu [7ss]
Lilitu [7ss]
Mature Nephilim [10ss]
Terror Tot Nephilim [3ss]
Tuco [7ss]
I'll have to play this a few times, of course, to see how I like it, but I think this will definitely be a step up. Some thoughts on my decisions:
Tuco seems to be a necessity here. I have practically no effective ranged threat using Lilith otherwise, and against some Masters *coughHamelincough* I really feel like I'll have a difficult time dealing any sort of damage without SOMETHING ranged. Tuco has a decent ranged shot, and a few movement shenanigans and special rules to help keep him safe and effective.
I don't know how effective Lelu/Lilitu are, but I feel like having them in my list for a few games would add some variety. Lilitu's Lure spell will give me some additional tricks I can pull on my opponent's models, and the two of them can (hopefully) be somewhat durable with Regeneration and additional healing (from Drink Blood, I guess). At 14 total Soulstones, they'll have more table presence than a Mature Nephilim and a Terror Tot, and can give me some more options.
I've only (so far) taken Lilith with the Mature and Terror Tot Nephilim, and I wanted to have one of each in my list. The Mature Nephilim is fantastic- he's fun, he's fast, he hits hard. What's not to like? The Terror Tot is around primarily so that I have something to spend Blood Tokens on (either for Growth, or for one of the Summon Lelu/Lilitu spells if necessary). Using it as a target for Lilith's Transposition spell is a useful option as well.
So, with that said, what's not in the list that I could've taken?
The Black Blood Shaman has a lot of tools that could be really handy, but I don't know that I could get as much mileage out of him as I'd like, both through limited Blood Counters, and limits to my play ability. Maybe eventually I'll pick one up and switch him in.
I really really wanted to take a Cherub in the list, but couldn't afford it. This hurts most because it takes away one of my primary ways to get Lilith around out of activation, but maybe I can utilize Lilitu's Lure to accomplish the same goal.
Nekima is really the only other model that would fit, but man, she's so expensive (13 Soulstones). She does have a bunch of helpful abilities, but she doesn't really add all that much to my crew that I don't already have in some form.
As for Schemes, I think I have a lot of options running this list. Breakthrough is a good choice, since most likely I'm going to be advancing on my opponent. Bodyguard isn't a bad choice as well, since Lilith's defensive stats are pretty solid. Kidnap and Reclaim Malifaux work great as well, the latter for the same reason as Breakthrough. I have some great choices here, and I'm sure, combined with whatever the Strategy ends up being, I'll be able to keep my opponent on his toes.
So what do you think? Anyone with experience running Lilith? Suggestions?
Showing posts with label Army Lists. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Army Lists. Show all posts
Wednesday, December 5, 2012
Thursday, March 10, 2011
Trying to get more 40K stuff going on again
Well, I've been pretty lax the past year or so about getting my Warhammer 40k armies assembled and on the table, and given all the cool new things that have come out, as well as a strong desire to play Spec Ops: Killzone with some 40k minis, I'm going to have to rectify that.
Part of the problem with my 40k motivation has been that all of my armies are really out of date. I have Necrons (the oldest un-updated codex) and Witch hunters (the next oldest), and I actually own a decent amount of Grey Knights (which are going to be the newest) but really can't afford to go buying the stuff I'd need to really play them. That leaves my Chaos Space Marines which I own plenty of, but have never touched.
I'm going to try really hard to assemble and play these guys this year, as well as work hard to create a unique, background driven army for them. I think 40k is one of those systems that really gains so much from the work the authors have done in fleshing out the background that it would be a waste to not to tap some of that when creating an army. So for now, I'm going to work on more 'fluffy' armies for my Chaos guys.
I own mostly Khorne stuff, and frankly, I'd like to start with a Khorne-based army anyway, since I think it'll be the easiest to figure out how to play well, even if I don't get many wins.
Here's the list I'm going to work towards, at least to start (2000 points):
Kharn the Betrayer - 165
Chaos Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 105
Chaos Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 105
4 Terminators w/ Icon of Khorne, 3 Combi-Meltas, Lightning Claws - 175
8 Khorne Berzerkers w/ Personal Icon, Skull Champion w/ Power Fist, Rhino w/ Extra Armour - 263
8 Khorne Berzerkers w/ Personal Icon, Skull Champion w/ Power Fist, Rhino w/ Extra Armour - 263
8 Khorne Berzerkers w/ Personal Icon, Skull Champion w/ Power Fist - 213
Chaos Predator w/ Lascannon Sponsons - 130
Chaos Predator w/ Lascannon Sponsons - 130
Land Raider w/ Daemonic Possession - 240
8 Lesser Daemons - 104
8 Lesser Daemons - 104
1997 points
First off, I wanted to keep as many units at 8 models as possible, because that's Khorne's sacred number.
Kharn is such a great HQ choice that I couldn't imagine not including him (although I really was considering trying to fit a Chaos Lord with a Daemon Weapon in if I could have fit him). He can help drop vehicles as well as eat through infantry.
The Khorne Berzerkers are pretty self explanatory. I can't really have a Khorne list without Khorne-worshipping guys, can I? The power fist is in there so that I won't be demolished every time I fight a walker, and the one squad on foot is actually going to be using the Land Raider. Them + Kharn in the Land Raider should be a nasty start to my army's assault. Obviously, the Icons are there to help make sure those Daemons land where I need them, as well as to help the Terminators.
The Dreadnoughts and Predators are there because I felt like I'd have a hard time with tanks otherwise. I probably still will, but I didn't have many other good choices I felt. Obliterators didn't feel very 'Khorney', and I considered running Defilers, but they didn't really fit the theme to me either (although I thought a Defiler with a ton of arms sure would). I needed SOMETHING to try to tackle armor, and these seemed like good choices.
The Lesser Daemons will help add some bodies to the army for a cheap price, and will help out during my assaults.
The Terminators... hmm... I was considering not using them, because they don't seem all that good, but they do give me a moderately mobile anti-tank option (they can pop a Land Raider before my first wave hits, I would think). Giving them the Mark of Khorne is a bit of a waste of points, but again, the list just wouldn't really feel right otherwise. I may put something else in, however. I'm not sure.
Once I get an army list hashed out, I'm going to start working on the army, with a squad of Berzerkers first (so I can use them in Killzone). As I do that, I'll work on the background for my army.
Any thoughts?
Part of the problem with my 40k motivation has been that all of my armies are really out of date. I have Necrons (the oldest un-updated codex) and Witch hunters (the next oldest), and I actually own a decent amount of Grey Knights (which are going to be the newest) but really can't afford to go buying the stuff I'd need to really play them. That leaves my Chaos Space Marines which I own plenty of, but have never touched.
I'm going to try really hard to assemble and play these guys this year, as well as work hard to create a unique, background driven army for them. I think 40k is one of those systems that really gains so much from the work the authors have done in fleshing out the background that it would be a waste to not to tap some of that when creating an army. So for now, I'm going to work on more 'fluffy' armies for my Chaos guys.
I own mostly Khorne stuff, and frankly, I'd like to start with a Khorne-based army anyway, since I think it'll be the easiest to figure out how to play well, even if I don't get many wins.
Here's the list I'm going to work towards, at least to start (2000 points):
Kharn the Betrayer - 165
Chaos Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 105
Chaos Dreadnought w/ Multi-Melta, Heavy Flamer - 105
4 Terminators w/ Icon of Khorne, 3 Combi-Meltas, Lightning Claws - 175
8 Khorne Berzerkers w/ Personal Icon, Skull Champion w/ Power Fist, Rhino w/ Extra Armour - 263
8 Khorne Berzerkers w/ Personal Icon, Skull Champion w/ Power Fist, Rhino w/ Extra Armour - 263
8 Khorne Berzerkers w/ Personal Icon, Skull Champion w/ Power Fist - 213
Chaos Predator w/ Lascannon Sponsons - 130
Chaos Predator w/ Lascannon Sponsons - 130
Land Raider w/ Daemonic Possession - 240
8 Lesser Daemons - 104
8 Lesser Daemons - 104
1997 points
First off, I wanted to keep as many units at 8 models as possible, because that's Khorne's sacred number.
Kharn is such a great HQ choice that I couldn't imagine not including him (although I really was considering trying to fit a Chaos Lord with a Daemon Weapon in if I could have fit him). He can help drop vehicles as well as eat through infantry.
The Khorne Berzerkers are pretty self explanatory. I can't really have a Khorne list without Khorne-worshipping guys, can I? The power fist is in there so that I won't be demolished every time I fight a walker, and the one squad on foot is actually going to be using the Land Raider. Them + Kharn in the Land Raider should be a nasty start to my army's assault. Obviously, the Icons are there to help make sure those Daemons land where I need them, as well as to help the Terminators.
The Dreadnoughts and Predators are there because I felt like I'd have a hard time with tanks otherwise. I probably still will, but I didn't have many other good choices I felt. Obliterators didn't feel very 'Khorney', and I considered running Defilers, but they didn't really fit the theme to me either (although I thought a Defiler with a ton of arms sure would). I needed SOMETHING to try to tackle armor, and these seemed like good choices.
The Lesser Daemons will help add some bodies to the army for a cheap price, and will help out during my assaults.
The Terminators... hmm... I was considering not using them, because they don't seem all that good, but they do give me a moderately mobile anti-tank option (they can pop a Land Raider before my first wave hits, I would think). Giving them the Mark of Khorne is a bit of a waste of points, but again, the list just wouldn't really feel right otherwise. I may put something else in, however. I'm not sure.
Once I get an army list hashed out, I'm going to start working on the army, with a squad of Berzerkers first (so I can use them in Killzone). As I do that, I'll work on the background for my army.
Any thoughts?
Tuesday, October 26, 2010
Master Tormentor Morghoul Tier 4 List
So, after playing with several of the Skorne models, and giving serious thought to others, I think I can take a shot at some of their theme forces. I figure it'll be easiest to start with the 'battle box' warlock, Morghoul. I've already gone over the basics of him, and his capabilities here. In this post, I'll take a look at his theme force.
Let's start by taking a look at the benefits of such a list.
Well, what can Morghoul take?
Warlock: Obviously, you have the choice of Master Tormentor Morghoul, and that's all. Given the purpose of this list, he's going to be a great choice regardless. Abuse is going to get some power out of your beasts, while Morghoul himself can be used to clear out single-wound infantry quickly.
Warbeasts: Non-character Cyclops and Titans are available. That leaves the Cyclops Savage, Shaman, and Brute, and the Titan Gladiator, Sentry, Cannoneer, and the Bronzeback Titan. You'll need two heavies to finish out the tiers, and I'd recommend the Titan Gladiator and Bronzeback.
The Cannoneer doesn't really help you all that much, since you're going to be depending on melee punch more than your range attacks. The Cyclops Brute can help keep the warlock alive. The Cyclops Savage and Shaman provide good animi, so are a good choice if you have a few points available. The Titan Sentry is probably not offensively oriented enough to be a good fit. The Gladiator provides a great animus and can hit hard. The Bronzeback is a great beast, and his Counter-Charge works really well with Morghoul's Admonition. Back the Bronzeback 3" away, then charge him back in.
Units: The theme list can take Paingiver units, as well as Cataphract Arcuarii. You're required to take 2 units of Arcuarii, and although they are a good unit for certain things, I don't feel they are useful enough that you're going to find much use to take more than the two minimum units. They'll provide a way to handle multi-wound infantry, and are going to be very helpful for killing key medium-base models.
Paingiver Beast Handlers are going to be hugely important for this army because of the heavy beast theme. Once the beasts get into contact with the opposing lines, they'll be running with a LOT of fury on them, and they'll be taking some damage. Having Beast Handlers around to keep things under control is going to be vital. In the theme force, they are FA U as well, in case you find yourself really needing more than 2 full units.
Paingiver Bloodrunners are another unit that can be taken. They don't really gain anything from the list, and the pieces you can include in the theme force don't help them any either (aside from the Master Tormentor). They can definitely be useful for going after ranged infantry in your opponent's army, or for going after other flanking units (like Daughters), especially if you take a Master Tormentor to increase their MAT.
Solos: Paingiver solos are available. Without Minion units, the Paingiver Task Master really doesn't have a role, so for now that just leaves the Paingiver Master Tormentor. Thresher, Reach, and Anatomical Precision give her a pretty effective ability to clear out single-wound infantry, and if you take Bloodrunners, she makes them pretty incredible at doing so as well. We may find a place for her.
How about some lists (all Tier 4):
25pts:
Master Tormentor Morghoul
- Bronzeback Titan
- Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
That's a lot more Beast Handlers than you'll need for only two beasts, but they'll be helpful for clogging up charge lanes or blocking your opponent in other ways. They also can kill single wound infantry, but that can't really be counted on. The key is the two Titans, who will bust through the center of the opposing army and mess up anything in their path. The Arcuarii can take out certain targets (like stupid Trollkin Champions).
At 35, I keep the core, and add some utility and protection:
35pts:
Master Tormentor Morghoul
- Cyclops Brute
- Cyclops Shaman
- Bronzeback Titan
- Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
The Brute is there to protect Morghoul. It can eat a combined ranged attack a turn (until it dies), which is a huge help in keeping my warlock alive. The Cyclops Shaman can drop negative spells/animi with his animus, which is great against some armies, while the Primal Magic ability can give me another casting of Rush while saving Fury on my primary combat beasts.
And here's the list at 50:
50pts:
Master Tormentor Morghoul
- Cyclops Brute
- Cyclops Savage
- Cyclops Shaman
- Bronzeback Titan
- Titan Gladiator
- Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Bloodrunner Master Tormentor
The Savage's animus is really helpful for maximizing your fury efficiency on those beasts. You'll NEED them to kill things, you can't afford them missing or wasting fury, and you'll want them doing as much damage as possible. Another Gladiator gives you more killing ability on the front line. The Bloodrunner Master Tormentor is great for clearing out infantry, which there isn't a whole lot of in this list. The last point is spent maxing out one of those Beast Handler units. You're up to 6 beasts now; you'll need the Beast Handlers.
I think this list could be very effective. That's a lot of beasts, and a decent amount of ability to support them. Certain armies will certainly give them problems, but I really think this army could be very tough for many armies to handle.
Let's start by taking a look at the benefits of such a list.
- FA U for Paingiver Beast Handlers, and Pathfinder for all models during the first turn of the game. The extra FA is handy, especially since the list is going to be running a lot of beasts. Pathfinder is even better though, since you'll be able to move up very quickly, regardless of terrain. Might be critical for certain scenarios.
- Cataphract Arcuarii get Advance Deployment. Since you'll have to take two units to get to Tier 4, this is a nice benefit as it gets them much closer to the enemy, where they need to be.
- Cheaper heavy warbeasts. That's always good.
- Increased deployment zone. Yeah, it's only 2", but it gets your melee-oriented beasts up the field a little faster, and every inch closer is going to be helpful.
Well, what can Morghoul take?
Warlock: Obviously, you have the choice of Master Tormentor Morghoul, and that's all. Given the purpose of this list, he's going to be a great choice regardless. Abuse is going to get some power out of your beasts, while Morghoul himself can be used to clear out single-wound infantry quickly.
Warbeasts: Non-character Cyclops and Titans are available. That leaves the Cyclops Savage, Shaman, and Brute, and the Titan Gladiator, Sentry, Cannoneer, and the Bronzeback Titan. You'll need two heavies to finish out the tiers, and I'd recommend the Titan Gladiator and Bronzeback.
The Cannoneer doesn't really help you all that much, since you're going to be depending on melee punch more than your range attacks. The Cyclops Brute can help keep the warlock alive. The Cyclops Savage and Shaman provide good animi, so are a good choice if you have a few points available. The Titan Sentry is probably not offensively oriented enough to be a good fit. The Gladiator provides a great animus and can hit hard. The Bronzeback is a great beast, and his Counter-Charge works really well with Morghoul's Admonition. Back the Bronzeback 3" away, then charge him back in.
Units: The theme list can take Paingiver units, as well as Cataphract Arcuarii. You're required to take 2 units of Arcuarii, and although they are a good unit for certain things, I don't feel they are useful enough that you're going to find much use to take more than the two minimum units. They'll provide a way to handle multi-wound infantry, and are going to be very helpful for killing key medium-base models.
Paingiver Beast Handlers are going to be hugely important for this army because of the heavy beast theme. Once the beasts get into contact with the opposing lines, they'll be running with a LOT of fury on them, and they'll be taking some damage. Having Beast Handlers around to keep things under control is going to be vital. In the theme force, they are FA U as well, in case you find yourself really needing more than 2 full units.
Paingiver Bloodrunners are another unit that can be taken. They don't really gain anything from the list, and the pieces you can include in the theme force don't help them any either (aside from the Master Tormentor). They can definitely be useful for going after ranged infantry in your opponent's army, or for going after other flanking units (like Daughters), especially if you take a Master Tormentor to increase their MAT.
Solos: Paingiver solos are available. Without Minion units, the Paingiver Task Master really doesn't have a role, so for now that just leaves the Paingiver Master Tormentor. Thresher, Reach, and Anatomical Precision give her a pretty effective ability to clear out single-wound infantry, and if you take Bloodrunners, she makes them pretty incredible at doing so as well. We may find a place for her.
How about some lists (all Tier 4):
25pts:
Master Tormentor Morghoul
- Bronzeback Titan
- Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
That's a lot more Beast Handlers than you'll need for only two beasts, but they'll be helpful for clogging up charge lanes or blocking your opponent in other ways. They also can kill single wound infantry, but that can't really be counted on. The key is the two Titans, who will bust through the center of the opposing army and mess up anything in their path. The Arcuarii can take out certain targets (like stupid Trollkin Champions).
At 35, I keep the core, and add some utility and protection:
35pts:
Master Tormentor Morghoul
- Cyclops Brute
- Cyclops Shaman
- Bronzeback Titan
- Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
The Brute is there to protect Morghoul. It can eat a combined ranged attack a turn (until it dies), which is a huge help in keeping my warlock alive. The Cyclops Shaman can drop negative spells/animi with his animus, which is great against some armies, while the Primal Magic ability can give me another casting of Rush while saving Fury on my primary combat beasts.
And here's the list at 50:
50pts:
Master Tormentor Morghoul
- Cyclops Brute
- Cyclops Savage
- Cyclops Shaman
- Bronzeback Titan
- Titan Gladiator
- Titan Gladiator
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Cataphract Arcuarii (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 5 Grunts)
Paingiver Beast Handlers (Leader and 3 Grunts)
Bloodrunner Master Tormentor
The Savage's animus is really helpful for maximizing your fury efficiency on those beasts. You'll NEED them to kill things, you can't afford them missing or wasting fury, and you'll want them doing as much damage as possible. Another Gladiator gives you more killing ability on the front line. The Bloodrunner Master Tormentor is great for clearing out infantry, which there isn't a whole lot of in this list. The last point is spent maxing out one of those Beast Handler units. You're up to 6 beasts now; you'll need the Beast Handlers.
I think this list could be very effective. That's a lot of beasts, and a decent amount of ability to support them. Certain armies will certainly give them problems, but I really think this army could be very tough for many armies to handle.
Saturday, August 28, 2010
8th Edition Empire, 2nd Attempt
Wizard Lord (lvl 4) w/ Rod of Power, Holy Relic (Lore of Life)
Captain w/ Pegasus, Lance, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Pistol, Dragon Helm
Captain (BSB) w/ Armour of Meteoric Iron, Wyrmslayer Sword
Battle Wizard (lvl 1) w/ Dispel Scroll (Lore of Shadow)
Warrior Priest w/ Relic Blade, Heavy Armor, Shield
Master Engineer
31 Halberdiers w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
-15 Swordsmen
30 Spearmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
12 Knightly Order w/ Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame
30 Greatswords w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
Mortar
Mortar
Helstorm Rocket Battery
Re-arranged things to get the Warrior Priest and the Engineer into the army, which should make me more effective overall (as per the advice I received). Also, the level 2 wizard really isn't going to do a whole lot, so he was turned down to a level 1, just so I can have the dispel scroll available. Overall, the core of the army stayed the same.
Let me know what you guys think!
Captain w/ Pegasus, Lance, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Pistol, Dragon Helm
Captain (BSB) w/ Armour of Meteoric Iron, Wyrmslayer Sword
Battle Wizard (lvl 1) w/ Dispel Scroll (Lore of Shadow)
Warrior Priest w/ Relic Blade, Heavy Armor, Shield
Master Engineer
31 Halberdiers w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
-15 Swordsmen
30 Spearmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
12 Knightly Order w/ Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame
30 Greatswords w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
Mortar
Mortar
Helstorm Rocket Battery
Re-arranged things to get the Warrior Priest and the Engineer into the army, which should make me more effective overall (as per the advice I received). Also, the level 2 wizard really isn't going to do a whole lot, so he was turned down to a level 1, just so I can have the dispel scroll available. Overall, the core of the army stayed the same.
Let me know what you guys think!
Friday, August 27, 2010
Dark Elves in 8th, Monster List
So, a common army for Dark Elves is one focused on their monsters. Unfortunately, I don't think such an army is all that effective n 8th, but I'm sure we could put together something that works.
Dreadlord w/ Manticore, Deathpiercer, Other Trickster's Shard, Pendant of Khaeleth, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield
Sorceress (lvl 2) w/ Sacrificial Dagger, Pearl of Infinite Bleakness
Sorceress (lvl 2) w/ Focus Familiar, Lord of Death
Master (BSB) w/ Armor of Darkness, Relic Blade
35 Warriors w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
10 Crossbowmen w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
10 Crossbowmen w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
10 Crossbowmen w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
6 Harpies
Cold One Chariot
Cold One Chariot
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, Crimson Death
War Hydra
War Hydra
Well, this is a 7th edition army ported over to 8th. However, I think it could work.
You have some decent mobility in this army, and the ability to threaten your opponent's backfield with the Manticore or the Harpies. There's some shooting, although not a very scary amount. There's some magic as well, with Death chosen as a lore because we'll need to go after enemy wizards as early as possible. The Wizard with lore of fire will put some wounds on things early.
The Black Guard is there to hold up a unit. Then hopefully one or more of my hammer units can get there to break the opposing unit. Combined, one or two of my hammers (the Chariots, Hydras, or Manticore) can do a lot of wounds. Of course, other than the Spearmen or Black Guard, there's no real way to get past Steadfast. I'll have to hope that magic can drop a rank or two, and that my wounds from combat can do enough damage.
I'll be giving this list a try as soon as I can. I want to make a list with 3 or more monsters work, so I'm going to try a few things. This is a good starting point though, I hope.
Dreadlord w/ Manticore, Deathpiercer, Other Trickster's Shard, Pendant of Khaeleth, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield
Sorceress (lvl 2) w/ Sacrificial Dagger, Pearl of Infinite Bleakness
Sorceress (lvl 2) w/ Focus Familiar, Lord of Death
Master (BSB) w/ Armor of Darkness, Relic Blade
35 Warriors w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
10 Crossbowmen w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
10 Crossbowmen w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
10 Crossbowmen w/ Standard, Musician, Shields
6 Harpies
Cold One Chariot
Cold One Chariot
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, Crimson Death
War Hydra
War Hydra
Well, this is a 7th edition army ported over to 8th. However, I think it could work.
You have some decent mobility in this army, and the ability to threaten your opponent's backfield with the Manticore or the Harpies. There's some shooting, although not a very scary amount. There's some magic as well, with Death chosen as a lore because we'll need to go after enemy wizards as early as possible. The Wizard with lore of fire will put some wounds on things early.
The Black Guard is there to hold up a unit. Then hopefully one or more of my hammer units can get there to break the opposing unit. Combined, one or two of my hammers (the Chariots, Hydras, or Manticore) can do a lot of wounds. Of course, other than the Spearmen or Black Guard, there's no real way to get past Steadfast. I'll have to hope that magic can drop a rank or two, and that my wounds from combat can do enough damage.
I'll be giving this list a try as soon as I can. I want to make a list with 3 or more monsters work, so I'm going to try a few things. This is a good starting point though, I hope.
Thursday, August 26, 2010
Dark Elves in 8th, Shooting List
Alright, time for another Dark Elf army list. My last list was very close combat geared, depending on the power of the Black Guard to deliver my damage. This time, I'm going to focus more on the shooting part of the army.
The list:
Dreadlord w/ Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Cold One, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth, and Crown of Command
Supreme Sorceress (lvl 4) w/ Lifetaker, Darkstar Cloak, Lore of Shadows
Master (BSB) w/ Repeater Crossbow, Armour of Darkness, Pearl of Infinite Bleakness
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbows
10 Crossbowmen w/ Musician, Standard, Shields - 125
10 Crossbowmen w/ Musician, Standard, Shields - 125
21 Crossbowmen w/ Full Command, Shields - 256
5 Shades
- Assassin w/ Manbane, Rending Stars
5 Shades
- Assassin w/ Manbane, Rending Stars
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
Hydra
Hydra
That's a fairly respectable amount of shooting, and the role of the shooting aspects of the list are fairly obvious. The other things may not be, however.
The Dreadlord's sole goal is to tie up a unit, or something scary. This army has a lot of shooting, but you're not going to be killing an opponent's army in a single turn. Units in the game overall seem to have gotten a bit faster in this edition, which means that your opponent could be on top of your army very early in the game. You need to worry about armies getting into close combat with you before you may have had a chance to wear them down with shooting. The Dreadlord will buy you some time.
The Hydras serve a similar role, but they are primarily there to break units after they have taken some shooting casualties. If a unit is down a few guys, a Hydra may be able to break it on its own. At the least, the shooting should (hopefully) mean there are fewer attacks coming back at you, which allows the Hydra can hold up a unit as well.
The Sorceress is taking Lore of Shadows. Every spell in the Lore, save Steed of Shadows, helps you out here. The signature spell will keep your opponent out of combat for longer (slowing them down). Enfeebling Foe will keep your crossbowmen alive longer should your opponent get into combat. The Withering will add to the effectiveness of your shooting. Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades will add some extra damage. Okkam's Mindrazor will make even your lowly crossbowmen scary in close combat. Of course, you don't have a lot of magic defense in this list (which I may have to find a way to add), but I'll play a game or two beforehand. Hopefully I can put enough shooting out to buy me a win.
So there you have it. I'll revisit this list after trying it a game or two, and see if it really is at all effective. Anyone try anything similar?
The list:
Dreadlord w/ Heavy Armour, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Cold One, Sword of Might, Dragonhelm, Pendant of Khaeleth, and Crown of Command
Supreme Sorceress (lvl 4) w/ Lifetaker, Darkstar Cloak, Lore of Shadows
Master (BSB) w/ Repeater Crossbow, Armour of Darkness, Pearl of Infinite Bleakness
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbows
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbows
10 Crossbowmen w/ Musician, Standard, Shields - 125
10 Crossbowmen w/ Musician, Standard, Shields - 125
21 Crossbowmen w/ Full Command, Shields - 256
5 Shades
- Assassin w/ Manbane, Rending Stars
5 Shades
- Assassin w/ Manbane, Rending Stars
2 Repeater Bolt Throwers
Hydra
Hydra
That's a fairly respectable amount of shooting, and the role of the shooting aspects of the list are fairly obvious. The other things may not be, however.
The Dreadlord's sole goal is to tie up a unit, or something scary. This army has a lot of shooting, but you're not going to be killing an opponent's army in a single turn. Units in the game overall seem to have gotten a bit faster in this edition, which means that your opponent could be on top of your army very early in the game. You need to worry about armies getting into close combat with you before you may have had a chance to wear them down with shooting. The Dreadlord will buy you some time.
The Hydras serve a similar role, but they are primarily there to break units after they have taken some shooting casualties. If a unit is down a few guys, a Hydra may be able to break it on its own. At the least, the shooting should (hopefully) mean there are fewer attacks coming back at you, which allows the Hydra can hold up a unit as well.
The Sorceress is taking Lore of Shadows. Every spell in the Lore, save Steed of Shadows, helps you out here. The signature spell will keep your opponent out of combat for longer (slowing them down). Enfeebling Foe will keep your crossbowmen alive longer should your opponent get into combat. The Withering will add to the effectiveness of your shooting. Penumbral Pendulum and Pit of Shades will add some extra damage. Okkam's Mindrazor will make even your lowly crossbowmen scary in close combat. Of course, you don't have a lot of magic defense in this list (which I may have to find a way to add), but I'll play a game or two beforehand. Hopefully I can put enough shooting out to buy me a win.
So there you have it. I'll revisit this list after trying it a game or two, and see if it really is at all effective. Anyone try anything similar?
Monday, August 16, 2010
Witch Coven Tier 4 List
The Witch Coven are next on my run-through of some of the Tier 4 lists, and will be the last for a bit (since I'll need more experience with some of the other casters before I can say for sure how I'd run them... I may take a shot at regular Goreshade, however). Seeing as how I'm going to be running my Skorne more soon, it will have to wait.
The Coven are strange to play for a few reasons. First, there are three of them, which means you'll get three activations out of your caster, which is very handy for some things, like your upkeeps and other spell-casting opportunities. In addition, they have the Perfect Conjunction rule to let them cast a lot of spells (it makes all their spells cost only one or two focus apiece). They are a bit more difficult to use, but they are VERY effective as a warcaster.
First, a look at the advantages:
Army List:
The Witch Coven of Garlghast
Defiler
Defiler
Deathjack
Seether
Seether
The Withershadow Combine
Darragh Wrathe
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
The obvious focus here is on jacks, and getting them up and doing some damage. Hopefully, you'll be able to beat your way through your opponent's army before they can take too big a chunk out of you. With the Coven's spells- it's not even necessary to beat through them- you can walk through them!
Let's look at some of the parts of the army.
The Witch Coven of Garlghast: The girls can't do the job on their own, but will certainly make the job easier for your army.
Curse of Shadows, Veil of Mists, and Ghost Walk all help your jacks get into position, or at the least bypass models or terrain your opponent will have in front of your targets. You'll be using these spells a lot to get those jacks into and past your opponent. At 2 focus apiece (with Perfect Conjunction), they aren't going to strain the Coven's casting ability. The Withershadow Combine will make even that easier to swallow, since they can upkeep one of your spells for free.
Occultation will help keep your jacks alive as they move up. Throwing Stealth on the Deathjack will provide it some defense against ranged attacks.
Stygian Abyss is a fairly basic damage spell, and if the Coven have nothing else to do with their focus for a turn, this isn't a bad way to spend it. The critical Shadow Bind is probably the more helpful use of the spell, but POW 12s can still hurt if done enough.
Infernal Machine is the key enhancement that the Coven will provide, and since they'll have 3 activations, you can spread this around to every one of your heavy jacks every turn. Speed 8 and MAT 10 for all 3 of your warjacks is going to make your opponent very nervous every turn, especially with all the focus you'll have (since your jacks generate 4 on their own).
Warjacks: I chose two Seethers and the Deathjack. The Deathjack is an auto-include for most Cryx armies it seems, since he's very focus-efficient, and can even cast some of the warcaster's spells. With this build, all three of your warjacks get Advance Deployment, and all three can run/charge without taking focus from your caster. They are also all very scary in close combat, especially with Infernal Machine to make sure they hit. Use Occultation, Veil of Mists, and terrain to keep them protected, then Infernal Machine + Veil of Mists, Ghost Walk, and Curse of Shadows to destroy your opponent's army.
Two Defilers are also included, since the Coven badly need arc nodes- they are too fragile to ever be close to the army's front line. The spray attacks will help against infantry, since you don't have many ways to tear through them otherwise. Of course, RAT 5 isn't exactly tearing through infantry, but you could certainly hurt them.
Units: Unfortunately, the constraints of the tier requirements really take a lot of points, meaning you don't have the points for units. That's a shame, since your unit choices for this list are actually really good. Bane Knights really fit the theme, since they have Ghostly built in. They, as well as Blood Witches, are great for killing infantry, which you don't really have otherwise in this list.
Soulhunters are a theme of this list, and they are fantastic at killing infantry, but pretty poor at killing anything else. If this list were for 75 points, I would certainly include 2 units just to take advantage of the free soul tokens and Darragh Wrathe's ability to give them Incorporeal during their activations (again, a theme of this army). At 50 points, however, they are just too costly to fit! Of course, I don't see myself playing 75 points anytime soon :(.
The Withershadow Combine is another of those choices that seem to be an auto-include in Cryx armies. They have a lot of abilities, and if you play Cryx you're probably familiar with them. They may even create an extra Helljack or two with this list.
Solos: There were a decent selection of choices here, but only three made the cut.
Necrotechs are very cost effective, and provide some ability to keep your jacks up and running (as well as a way to benefit after killing your opponent's jacks). With two Necrotechs, all three of your jacks can repair throughout the game (assuming the Deathjack has living models to murder). Scrap thralls have some infantry killing ability as well, so certainly aren't a bad feature.
Pistol Wraiths are one of my favorite choices, but really don't add anything to the list. You can actually kill heavy warjacks, so freezing them doesn't really help. You'll want some infantry killing power, but these guys can't provide enough of it to justify their cost.
The Skarlock Thrall is another great choice, but I couldn't really see any spell that it would cast that I wouldn't be able to cast otherwise. It didn't really fit a need, so I skipped it.
The Warwitch Sirens are there to provide focus for your bonejacks to get them into position. You have an 18" control range with the Coven, so having your bonejacks far away is ideal- hopefully your opponent is far away from your caster, after all. They could also venom enemy infantry, which will come in handy (although if opponent infantry are that close, you're probably in trouble).
Darragh Wrathe is a necessity for tier 4, and although he has some nice abilities, the main benefit he adds to this army is likely to be either Beyond Death or Hellfire. If I had the points to take Soulhunters (which I would at higher points), his Leadership bonus is really fantastic, extending the places your Soulhunters can go. Throw him into a unit of infantry to kill one or two, and hinder the unit's damage potential.
Overall, the Witch Coven's theme list has some interesting potential, but I don't really see it fulfilled at 50 points, since you can't take advantage of the Soulhunters. At this level, I think this list will perform fine, although your only benefit is Advance Deployment on the warjacks, and a single re-deployment. Worth it? We'll see.
The Coven are strange to play for a few reasons. First, there are three of them, which means you'll get three activations out of your caster, which is very handy for some things, like your upkeeps and other spell-casting opportunities. In addition, they have the Perfect Conjunction rule to let them cast a lot of spells (it makes all their spells cost only one or two focus apiece). They are a bit more difficult to use, but they are VERY effective as a warcaster.
First, a look at the advantages:
- Extra Soulhunters and extra Warwitch Sirens. Combined with a later tier bonus, extra Soulhunters could be quite effective.
- Soulhunters begin the game with a soul token! It's much easier to get more soul tokens once you have the first, so this is great.
- You can re-deploy a model/unit. This isn't an overtly strong ability, but it's a nice-to-have. You can keep vital pieces out of danger, or put something closer to where it needs to be after seeing where your opponent has put his army.
- Advance Deployment for Helljacks. Another nice-to-have, as you'll be able to get your Helljacks into the action much quicker.
Army List:
The Witch Coven of Garlghast
Defiler
Defiler
Deathjack
Seether
Seether
The Withershadow Combine
Darragh Wrathe
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
The obvious focus here is on jacks, and getting them up and doing some damage. Hopefully, you'll be able to beat your way through your opponent's army before they can take too big a chunk out of you. With the Coven's spells- it's not even necessary to beat through them- you can walk through them!
Let's look at some of the parts of the army.
The Witch Coven of Garlghast: The girls can't do the job on their own, but will certainly make the job easier for your army.
Curse of Shadows, Veil of Mists, and Ghost Walk all help your jacks get into position, or at the least bypass models or terrain your opponent will have in front of your targets. You'll be using these spells a lot to get those jacks into and past your opponent. At 2 focus apiece (with Perfect Conjunction), they aren't going to strain the Coven's casting ability. The Withershadow Combine will make even that easier to swallow, since they can upkeep one of your spells for free.
Occultation will help keep your jacks alive as they move up. Throwing Stealth on the Deathjack will provide it some defense against ranged attacks.
Stygian Abyss is a fairly basic damage spell, and if the Coven have nothing else to do with their focus for a turn, this isn't a bad way to spend it. The critical Shadow Bind is probably the more helpful use of the spell, but POW 12s can still hurt if done enough.
Infernal Machine is the key enhancement that the Coven will provide, and since they'll have 3 activations, you can spread this around to every one of your heavy jacks every turn. Speed 8 and MAT 10 for all 3 of your warjacks is going to make your opponent very nervous every turn, especially with all the focus you'll have (since your jacks generate 4 on their own).
Warjacks: I chose two Seethers and the Deathjack. The Deathjack is an auto-include for most Cryx armies it seems, since he's very focus-efficient, and can even cast some of the warcaster's spells. With this build, all three of your warjacks get Advance Deployment, and all three can run/charge without taking focus from your caster. They are also all very scary in close combat, especially with Infernal Machine to make sure they hit. Use Occultation, Veil of Mists, and terrain to keep them protected, then Infernal Machine + Veil of Mists, Ghost Walk, and Curse of Shadows to destroy your opponent's army.
Two Defilers are also included, since the Coven badly need arc nodes- they are too fragile to ever be close to the army's front line. The spray attacks will help against infantry, since you don't have many ways to tear through them otherwise. Of course, RAT 5 isn't exactly tearing through infantry, but you could certainly hurt them.
Units: Unfortunately, the constraints of the tier requirements really take a lot of points, meaning you don't have the points for units. That's a shame, since your unit choices for this list are actually really good. Bane Knights really fit the theme, since they have Ghostly built in. They, as well as Blood Witches, are great for killing infantry, which you don't really have otherwise in this list.
Soulhunters are a theme of this list, and they are fantastic at killing infantry, but pretty poor at killing anything else. If this list were for 75 points, I would certainly include 2 units just to take advantage of the free soul tokens and Darragh Wrathe's ability to give them Incorporeal during their activations (again, a theme of this army). At 50 points, however, they are just too costly to fit! Of course, I don't see myself playing 75 points anytime soon :(.
The Withershadow Combine is another of those choices that seem to be an auto-include in Cryx armies. They have a lot of abilities, and if you play Cryx you're probably familiar with them. They may even create an extra Helljack or two with this list.
Solos: There were a decent selection of choices here, but only three made the cut.
Necrotechs are very cost effective, and provide some ability to keep your jacks up and running (as well as a way to benefit after killing your opponent's jacks). With two Necrotechs, all three of your jacks can repair throughout the game (assuming the Deathjack has living models to murder). Scrap thralls have some infantry killing ability as well, so certainly aren't a bad feature.
Pistol Wraiths are one of my favorite choices, but really don't add anything to the list. You can actually kill heavy warjacks, so freezing them doesn't really help. You'll want some infantry killing power, but these guys can't provide enough of it to justify their cost.
The Skarlock Thrall is another great choice, but I couldn't really see any spell that it would cast that I wouldn't be able to cast otherwise. It didn't really fit a need, so I skipped it.
The Warwitch Sirens are there to provide focus for your bonejacks to get them into position. You have an 18" control range with the Coven, so having your bonejacks far away is ideal- hopefully your opponent is far away from your caster, after all. They could also venom enemy infantry, which will come in handy (although if opponent infantry are that close, you're probably in trouble).
Darragh Wrathe is a necessity for tier 4, and although he has some nice abilities, the main benefit he adds to this army is likely to be either Beyond Death or Hellfire. If I had the points to take Soulhunters (which I would at higher points), his Leadership bonus is really fantastic, extending the places your Soulhunters can go. Throw him into a unit of infantry to kill one or two, and hinder the unit's damage potential.
Overall, the Witch Coven's theme list has some interesting potential, but I don't really see it fulfilled at 50 points, since you can't take advantage of the Soulhunters. At this level, I think this list will perform fine, although your only benefit is Advance Deployment on the warjacks, and a single re-deployment. Worth it? We'll see.
Friday, August 13, 2010
8th Edition Empire
While I'm figuring out what the heck I'm going to do with my Dark Elves, I really should decide on how I'm going to run my Empire.
I don't really want to run pure (or even primarily) gun line if I can help it. I think it's very boring, and such an army doesn't take a whole lot of skill to play. What's the point if it's neither fun or challenging? Unfortunately, Empire DO need the use of some of their artillery. It's a major part of their army's capability and flavor. So I'll have to include some.
Here's the list I'm thinking about (for 2500 pts).
Wizard Lord (lvl 4) w/ Rod of Power, Holy Relic (Lore of Life)
Captain w/ Pegasus, Lance, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Pistol, Dragon Helm
Captain (BSB) w/ Armour of Meteoric Iron, Wyrmslayer Sword
Battle Wizard (lvl 2) w/ Dispel Scroll (Lore of Shadow)
32 Halberdiers w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
-15 Swordsmen
33 Spearmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
12 Knightly Order w/ Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame
30 Greatswords w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
Mortar
Mortar
Helstorm Rocket Battery
Helstorm Rocket Battery
This army competes competently in every phase of the game. For shooting, I'm still running 6 war machines, and am likely to get a lot of firepower out there. For combat, I have 3 good blocks with support, plus the Knights who may add some power to whatever fight they join. During the magic phase, I have two wizards who hopefully will support my army.
The Captain on Pegasus' primary goal will be killing war machines. Secondary task will be going after mages.
I have a few concerns with this list, primarily the low Leadership (8), but I'm hoping I can by. We'll have to see. A few games trying the list in the new edition will give me some insight on how this army should change.
Let me know what you think!
I don't really want to run pure (or even primarily) gun line if I can help it. I think it's very boring, and such an army doesn't take a whole lot of skill to play. What's the point if it's neither fun or challenging? Unfortunately, Empire DO need the use of some of their artillery. It's a major part of their army's capability and flavor. So I'll have to include some.
Here's the list I'm thinking about (for 2500 pts).
Wizard Lord (lvl 4) w/ Rod of Power, Holy Relic (Lore of Life)
Captain w/ Pegasus, Lance, Full Plate Armor, Shield, Pistol, Dragon Helm
Captain (BSB) w/ Armour of Meteoric Iron, Wyrmslayer Sword
Battle Wizard (lvl 2) w/ Dispel Scroll (Lore of Shadow)
32 Halberdiers w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
-15 Swordsmen
33 Spearmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
12 Knightly Order w/ Great Weapons, Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame
30 Greatswords w/ Standard Bearer, Musician
- 15 Swordsmen
Great Cannon
Great Cannon
Mortar
Mortar
Helstorm Rocket Battery
Helstorm Rocket Battery
This army competes competently in every phase of the game. For shooting, I'm still running 6 war machines, and am likely to get a lot of firepower out there. For combat, I have 3 good blocks with support, plus the Knights who may add some power to whatever fight they join. During the magic phase, I have two wizards who hopefully will support my army.
The Captain on Pegasus' primary goal will be killing war machines. Secondary task will be going after mages.
I have a few concerns with this list, primarily the low Leadership (8), but I'm hoping I can by. We'll have to see. A few games trying the list in the new edition will give me some insight on how this army should change.
Let me know what you think!
Thursday, August 12, 2010
Dark Elves in 8th, Part 8: Black Guard List
To start off, I'll admit that the list is pretty much a copy of the one listed here. That's not because I copied it (although I did agree with the combination of items on the Black Guard, so I adjusted to match), but because it is good advice, and it's what I consider the best choices for a Dark Elf army, myself. With that said, Stelek is pretty much spot on.
Here's my army choice for 2500 pts. I don't own nearly enough Black Guard, but I'll build towards it, definitely.
Supreme Sorceress (level 4) w/ Sacrificial Dagger, Pendant of Khaeleth (Lore of Fire) - 320
Sorceress (level 2) w/ Focus Familiar, Pearl of Infinite Bleakness (Lore of Metal) - 185
Master (BSB) w/ Halberd, Blood Amour, Black Dragon Egg - 154
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbows - 117
10 Dark Elf Crossbowmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician - 115
10 Dark Elf Crossbowmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician - 115
10 Dark Elf Crossbowmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician - 115
30 Dark Elf Warriors w/ Shields - 210
Assassin w/ Extra Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death - 151
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, Crimson Death - 330
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Sword of Might, Banner of Murder - 335
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Relic Blade, Razor Standard - 350
I think this is fairly standard. The BSB will hope in the middle-most Black Guard unit, and he'll keep those three units around for quite a bit. Both Sorceresses go into the Spearmen. The Assassin really can go in any of the Black Guard units. After trying the one scenario a few times, I may drop some upgrades from the crossbowmen (depends how many banners I'll actually need). We shall see.
You'll have a lot of overall capability in this list. 70 Crossbow shots, very offensive magic, and fantastic close combat ability combine to give you a very good shot to compete. Your opponent's army will take a lot of casualties coming in to fight you, and once they get there, your Black Guard are more than enough to handle the task of beating them back. Also, depending on the scenario, you can even be more aggressive. Those Black Guard can advance into your opponent's face to force them to deal with them on your terms.
I'll work on posting some other army lists I think will be effective in upcoming days, as well.
Here's my army choice for 2500 pts. I don't own nearly enough Black Guard, but I'll build towards it, definitely.
Supreme Sorceress (level 4) w/ Sacrificial Dagger, Pendant of Khaeleth (Lore of Fire) - 320
Sorceress (level 2) w/ Focus Familiar, Pearl of Infinite Bleakness (Lore of Metal) - 185
Master (BSB) w/ Halberd, Blood Amour, Black Dragon Egg - 154
5 Dark Riders w/ Musician, Repeater Crossbows - 117
10 Dark Elf Crossbowmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician - 115
10 Dark Elf Crossbowmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician - 115
10 Dark Elf Crossbowmen w/ Standard Bearer, Musician - 115
30 Dark Elf Warriors w/ Shields - 210
Assassin w/ Extra Hand Weapon, Rune of Khaine, Touch of Death - 151
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame, Crimson Death - 330
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Sword of Might, Banner of Murder - 335
20 Black Guard w/ Full Command, Relic Blade, Razor Standard - 350
I think this is fairly standard. The BSB will hope in the middle-most Black Guard unit, and he'll keep those three units around for quite a bit. Both Sorceresses go into the Spearmen. The Assassin really can go in any of the Black Guard units. After trying the one scenario a few times, I may drop some upgrades from the crossbowmen (depends how many banners I'll actually need). We shall see.
You'll have a lot of overall capability in this list. 70 Crossbow shots, very offensive magic, and fantastic close combat ability combine to give you a very good shot to compete. Your opponent's army will take a lot of casualties coming in to fight you, and once they get there, your Black Guard are more than enough to handle the task of beating them back. Also, depending on the scenario, you can even be more aggressive. Those Black Guard can advance into your opponent's face to force them to deal with them on your terms.
I'll work on posting some other army lists I think will be effective in upcoming days, as well.
Monday, July 26, 2010
Warwitch Deneghra Tier 4 List
Well, the second of my three main Cryx casters is regular Deneghra (the last is the Witch Coven, who I'll get around to eventually).
Deneghra's tiered list is a little weird. Its very jack focused, which is not how I usually run her, but it gets some interesting advantages.
Warwitch Deneghra
- Nightwretch
- Nightwretch
- Nightwretch
- Ripjaw (free!)
- Stalker
- Seether
- Seether
- Skarlock Thrall
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Pistol Wraith
Pistol Wraith
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
That looks pretty unpleasant. Let's take a look at some of the pieces.
Deneghra: Well she has to be there, since this is her list. Deneghra is the starter box caster, and will probably get the most play for any new-ish Cryx player. Fortunately, she's fantastic. Her feat can both allow your assassination run to work flawlessly, as well as provide your models some protection (by reducing your opponent's attack stats). If things are bad temporarily, you can always just walk away (ignoring free strikes), and with Stealth she gets some protection from ranged attacks.
Her spells are FANTASTIC. Parasite and Crippling Grasp will cause you to debuff multiple units (and on her feat turn, it's going to be even worse!). Ghost Walk is going to get your tools into place safely. Scourge will get you a bunch of knockdowns, and Venom is your primary way of killing things (2 focus for a POW 10 spray? Awesome). With your debuff spells (and the feat, of course) even that POW 10 is going to be scary. She can't completely win on her own, but her spells are going to make anything you take better.
Light Jacks: I took 3 Nightwretches, a Stalker, and a Ripjaw, which is free. You are required to take 4 bonejacks to get that free bonejack, but even if it wasn't required I could see taking that many bonejacks with her anyway. You need those arc nodes to get spells into position, and here we have 4.
The Nightwretches provide some moderate short range shooting, but on a target that's been Crippling Grasp'd, you can actually put out some damage. Of course, their primary role is as an Arc Node.
The Ripjaw functions as an arc node as well, but it also can deal some damage to heavy jacks, which is something this list needs. It's free in the list, so it's definitely worth its points! It can also help lock an opponent in place, which combined with the Pistol Wraiths could come in handy to set up an attack lane.
The Stalker is interesting. It's not an arc node, but can ignore spell effects that add to my opponent's DEF or ARM. That's only things that add to it- so if I am debuffing the model, those will still count. This means that I can kill most things that have been Crippling Grasp'd. Pathfinder + Spd 7 will help it get there in time to matter.
Heavy Jacks: I chose two Seethers here for one reason: focus efficiency. Not only do they and charge for free, but they generate a focus point on their own! Deneghra has a good focus value, but she'll be pretty strained with all the spells she's going to need to get off, as well as having to put some focus on her jacks to get them into position. Anything that helps out is great. These guys qualify.
Chain Attacks: Grab & Smash is kind of cool too- beat something and then two-handed throw it? That's some pretty hefty disruption. There are certainly potentials there.
Units: Well, I included a single unit of Mechanithralls here. They don't have a main role they are designed to fill- they can function as a good anti-infantry unit, or deal some damage to jacks. Really they are there solely for numbers. They may kill a few things, and for their cost that's really all you can ask of them.
Bile Thralls were another allowed option, but going anti-infantry isn't a problem with this army anyway, I'm guessing.
Solos: 7 Solos in this army, so they had better be good!
The Skarlock doesn't require much explanation. He gives me a free spell a turn. Even another casting of Venom every turn can add up to something useful. He might also try to throw a Parasite on something prior to Deneghra's activation if something dangerous is in range.
The Pistol Wraiths, strangely, are there to handle heavy jacks. Shooting infantry can really come in handy (to get some tokens), but I'm mainly concerned with freezing enemy jacks in place with Chain Attack: Death Chill. Other than chipping away slowly at heavy jacks, I don't have a good way to kill them. With the Pistol Wraiths, I might not have to. They can either move or take their action. They can try to move into contact with some of my things to hold it in place, but then you can just Ghost Walk whatever it was out of there. If the jack doesn't have a ranged attack, they really don't have many ways to use them once I chill them (other than killing the Pistol Wraiths while they are vulnerable).
Finally, the Warwitch Sirens. They, as said, act as mini-Deneghras, plus give some more focus assistance. Power Booster is handy primarily early on, to give a focus to your Bonejacks so that they can move up into range. Some turns, they'll even give some focus for your jacks to use for something more useful. They will be great when your army meets the opposing army, because they can cast Venom. Every one will be using a spray template that not only will do some damage (with Deneghra's spells), but also will cause Corrosion if they hit. That's death for most infantry, and if you get lined up on your opponent's caster on the feat turn, it's going to be a scary thing. At 2 points apiece, you may as well take as many as you can.
Necrotechs were another allowed Solo, but I didn't see much point. The jacks should be pretty far up right away, and while picking up the wreck markers would be pretty helpful, I'm not sure the byproduct from that labor would pay off in time. I'm expecting to put the pressure on quick, keep it on for a few turns, and then go for the kill.
Anyway, there you have it. Should be a fun army to run, I'm guessing. Thoughts?
Deneghra's tiered list is a little weird. Its very jack focused, which is not how I usually run her, but it gets some interesting advantages.
- Extra Warwitch Sirens plus Advance Deployment on them. Everyone seems to love these girls. They are basically mini-Deneghras, and get Power Booster to help out with Jack efficiency, as well as an extra venom attack for killing infantry or going in for the assassination. This is already a pretty good start.
- +1 on the starting roll for the game. You'll already have a lot of Advanced Deployment/Movement. Going first means you can be in your opponent's face really early.
- Free bonejack! Of course, you'll have to take 4 bonejacks just to achieve this, but how can you turn down a free jack? I chose a Ripjaw, since it's the most expensive. Also, it'll fill a role we'll need some help with.
- Advance Move on Helljacks. Moving my jacks 6" forward to start the game and increasing my chance to go first lets me get some great threat on my opponent early.
Pretty good advantages. Of course, that really will depend on what we can take to take advantage of it.
My list:Warwitch Deneghra
- Nightwretch
- Nightwretch
- Nightwretch
- Ripjaw (free!)
- Stalker
- Seether
- Seether
- Skarlock Thrall
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
Pistol Wraith
Pistol Wraith
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
Warwitch Siren
That looks pretty unpleasant. Let's take a look at some of the pieces.
Deneghra: Well she has to be there, since this is her list. Deneghra is the starter box caster, and will probably get the most play for any new-ish Cryx player. Fortunately, she's fantastic. Her feat can both allow your assassination run to work flawlessly, as well as provide your models some protection (by reducing your opponent's attack stats). If things are bad temporarily, you can always just walk away (ignoring free strikes), and with Stealth she gets some protection from ranged attacks.
Her spells are FANTASTIC. Parasite and Crippling Grasp will cause you to debuff multiple units (and on her feat turn, it's going to be even worse!). Ghost Walk is going to get your tools into place safely. Scourge will get you a bunch of knockdowns, and Venom is your primary way of killing things (2 focus for a POW 10 spray? Awesome). With your debuff spells (and the feat, of course) even that POW 10 is going to be scary. She can't completely win on her own, but her spells are going to make anything you take better.
Light Jacks: I took 3 Nightwretches, a Stalker, and a Ripjaw, which is free. You are required to take 4 bonejacks to get that free bonejack, but even if it wasn't required I could see taking that many bonejacks with her anyway. You need those arc nodes to get spells into position, and here we have 4.
The Nightwretches provide some moderate short range shooting, but on a target that's been Crippling Grasp'd, you can actually put out some damage. Of course, their primary role is as an Arc Node.
The Ripjaw functions as an arc node as well, but it also can deal some damage to heavy jacks, which is something this list needs. It's free in the list, so it's definitely worth its points! It can also help lock an opponent in place, which combined with the Pistol Wraiths could come in handy to set up an attack lane.
The Stalker is interesting. It's not an arc node, but can ignore spell effects that add to my opponent's DEF or ARM. That's only things that add to it- so if I am debuffing the model, those will still count. This means that I can kill most things that have been Crippling Grasp'd. Pathfinder + Spd 7 will help it get there in time to matter.
Heavy Jacks: I chose two Seethers here for one reason: focus efficiency. Not only do they and charge for free, but they generate a focus point on their own! Deneghra has a good focus value, but she'll be pretty strained with all the spells she's going to need to get off, as well as having to put some focus on her jacks to get them into position. Anything that helps out is great. These guys qualify.
Chain Attacks: Grab & Smash is kind of cool too- beat something and then two-handed throw it? That's some pretty hefty disruption. There are certainly potentials there.
Units: Well, I included a single unit of Mechanithralls here. They don't have a main role they are designed to fill- they can function as a good anti-infantry unit, or deal some damage to jacks. Really they are there solely for numbers. They may kill a few things, and for their cost that's really all you can ask of them.
Bile Thralls were another allowed option, but going anti-infantry isn't a problem with this army anyway, I'm guessing.
Solos: 7 Solos in this army, so they had better be good!
The Skarlock doesn't require much explanation. He gives me a free spell a turn. Even another casting of Venom every turn can add up to something useful. He might also try to throw a Parasite on something prior to Deneghra's activation if something dangerous is in range.
The Pistol Wraiths, strangely, are there to handle heavy jacks. Shooting infantry can really come in handy (to get some tokens), but I'm mainly concerned with freezing enemy jacks in place with Chain Attack: Death Chill. Other than chipping away slowly at heavy jacks, I don't have a good way to kill them. With the Pistol Wraiths, I might not have to. They can either move or take their action. They can try to move into contact with some of my things to hold it in place, but then you can just Ghost Walk whatever it was out of there. If the jack doesn't have a ranged attack, they really don't have many ways to use them once I chill them (other than killing the Pistol Wraiths while they are vulnerable).
Finally, the Warwitch Sirens. They, as said, act as mini-Deneghras, plus give some more focus assistance. Power Booster is handy primarily early on, to give a focus to your Bonejacks so that they can move up into range. Some turns, they'll even give some focus for your jacks to use for something more useful. They will be great when your army meets the opposing army, because they can cast Venom. Every one will be using a spray template that not only will do some damage (with Deneghra's spells), but also will cause Corrosion if they hit. That's death for most infantry, and if you get lined up on your opponent's caster on the feat turn, it's going to be a scary thing. At 2 points apiece, you may as well take as many as you can.
Necrotechs were another allowed Solo, but I didn't see much point. The jacks should be pretty far up right away, and while picking up the wreck markers would be pretty helpful, I'm not sure the byproduct from that labor would pay off in time. I'm expecting to put the pressure on quick, keep it on for a few turns, and then go for the kill.
Anyway, there you have it. Should be a fun army to run, I'm guessing. Thoughts?
Friday, July 16, 2010
Iron Lich Asphyxious Tier 4 List
So I REALLY love the theme lists in the Forces of Warmachine books. Not only do I love themed armies, but getting various bonuses for restricting your choices (as well as providing a reason to take some of these choices) is just too cool to pass up.
With that in mind, I'm going to start investigating them (as well as my 8th edition Dark Elves, which should continue on Monday), starting with my favorite Cryx caster, Iron Lich Asphyxious.
Let's take a quick look at the benefits of running him at Tier 4:
- Cankerworm
- Deathripper
- Corruptor
- Slayer
- Slayer
- Slayer
- Skarlock Thrall
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
- 2 Brute Thrall
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
- 2 Brute Thrall
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Machine Wraith
Machine Wraith
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
That's 4 heavy and 2 light wreck markers as well.
Asphyxious: Obviously, Iron Lich Asphyxious needs to be your warcaster for this army to be allowed. I'm fairly sure almost any army can be made around him, because he's so useful overall. He has a good debuff spell in Parasite, a good enhancing spell in Scything Touch, good direct damage with Hellfire, good crowd control with Breath of Corruption, and a handy utility spell in Teleport. His weapon is strong enough (combined with his spells) to put a serious beating on anything that gets too close to him, and on his feat turn he's going to spend 14 focus dealing some beatings.
Warjacks: Any non-character warjack is allowed in addition to the Cankerworm. That unfortunately leaves out the Deathjack, but it leaves more than enough choices for Asphyxious.
Obviously with the point reduction of Slayers, you'll want to take them. They are good melee jacks with 3 attacks to help clear out infantry, and potential to harm heavy jacks. Two open hands really come in handy from time to time too.
The Cankerworm is a requirement for the Theme List, and he's pretty cool- being able to take a weapon off of a wreck marker (once I destroy some of my opponent's jacks) is going to be a fun ability. Eating a wreck marker to heal is just an additional bonus.
The Corruptor is in there because he's a point cheaper than normal, and I can see him adding some utility. Burster will probably not get much use, but Distillation and Psycho Venom are going to be occasionally handy. RAT 5 will take some work to pull off hits though. Still, I can't think of a better army to actually run the model in.
The Deathripper is the only Arc Node I'm running (although the Corruptor can make temporary ones), which is very strange for my normal style. I think that with all the other things on the table, my opponent is going to be more focused on the scary things, and less focused on the arc node. And heck, if they want to take some shots at the arc node, that's fine too- just means the rest of my army is getting closer!
All these jacks, as I've noted, give me free wreck markers on the table to help power other parts of my army.
Units: Bane Thralls, Bile Thralls, Mechanithralls, and Necrosurgeons are allowed. As you can see, I only took Mechanithralls and some Necrosurgeons.
I'm not sure Bile Thralls really fit the theme of the army, and on top of that, I'm not sure there's much need for them. Yes, they're great for clearing out infantry, but I think I have enough tools to handle that. I'll re-evaluate after actually playing a game with the list though. Bane Thralls are one of my favorite units, but again, they don't have a role that I can't fill with something else. Also, neither of those two units gets a benefit from the theme list.
Mechanithralls are a great unit- they're so cheap! 2 attacks apiece give them a way to handle infantry, and their Combo Strike gives them an option against higher ARM models. Gaining Advance Deploy gets them up in the action faster (allowing them to keep up with the jacks). They gain additional help from the Necrosurgeons, who can potentially replenish the unit (as well as heal my caster). The Brute Thralls obviously add extra punch. 18 points for 32 models is a great deal- especially 32 models that will get my opponent's attention.
Solos: Moderate options here.
Bloat Thralls are one of the few Cryx artillery options, and hand us a way to deal with infantry, which may be a problem for this list, but I left them out for now. I think the list can handle infantry without their help. We will see.
I added two Machine Wraiths, not because I think they'll win me the game, but they are just so annoying to deal with sometimes. If I run against a jack-heavy army, I can hold two jacks down and force my opponent to waste focus getting them back, or force them to waste attacks damaging their own jacks to knock the Wraiths out. You can never tell what these guys are going to be able to screw over.
Necrotechs are a required part of the army, but are useful given the composition. Keeping my jacks healthy is a much needed skill given the number of jacks. Once the jacks are dead, spitting out a bunch of Scrap Thralls lets my jacks serve an extra purpose- those Scrap Thrall bombs add up! Starting with Wreck markers on the board means I can get Scrap Thralls out there early too.
Finally, there's a Skarlock. I take it in almost every army I'm allowed to.
Army Tactics: So I haven't played this yet, but I intend to shortly. This army has a bunch of models, plus the ability to create a few more. The jacks spearhead the assault, and should be able to either damage things in their way or disrupt my opponent's line. The Mechanithralls follow up, and swarm over my opponent's army, killing what they can. Everything else supports those waves. Asphyxious and the Skarlock support my front line with Scything Touch and Parasite (plus the occasional damage spell). The Necrotechs pick up a few wreck markers and send the Scrap Thralls forward (as well as repair jacks when they get to them). The Necrosurgeons keep the Mechanithrall units strong and heal Asphyxious from time to time. It should be a fairly durable army with a lot of threats.
I'll post some reports (and changes) once I get it in action.
Any thoughts?
With that in mind, I'm going to start investigating them (as well as my 8th edition Dark Elves, which should continue on Monday), starting with my favorite Cryx caster, Iron Lich Asphyxious.
Let's take a quick look at the benefits of running him at Tier 4:
- Mechanithrall units can advance deploy: Given that they get 2 attacks apiece, are fairly inexpensive, and Asphyxious's spells can make them terrifying to almost anything, having them get up the table faster (as well as getting some knowledge of where my opponent's threats are prior to setting them up) is extremely handy.
- Cheaper Slayers and Corruptors: I've never used the Corruptor, but a decreased point cost may make it worth it. We'll see. I do love Slayers, however. Five point, fast heavies with 2 attacks backed up by a versatile caster? Very handy.
- Free wreck markers: Because the list allows you to run the Cankerworm (who heals from wreck markers) and Necrotechs (who create things out of the wreck markers), starting the game with a bunch for no cost is very handy.
- Faster warjacks on the first turn of the game: I will be running a bunch of Slayers, so letting them run 16 inches on my first turn is great.
This is the 50 point list I'd run, and I'll explain the pieces afterwards.
Iron Lich Asphyxious- Cankerworm
- Deathripper
- Corruptor
- Slayer
- Slayer
- Slayer
- Skarlock Thrall
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
- 2 Brute Thrall
Mechanithralls (Leader and 9 Grunts)
- 2 Brute Thrall
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Necrosurgeon & 3 Stitch Thralls
Machine Wraith
Machine Wraith
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
Necrotech & 1 Scrap Thrall
That's 4 heavy and 2 light wreck markers as well.
Asphyxious: Obviously, Iron Lich Asphyxious needs to be your warcaster for this army to be allowed. I'm fairly sure almost any army can be made around him, because he's so useful overall. He has a good debuff spell in Parasite, a good enhancing spell in Scything Touch, good direct damage with Hellfire, good crowd control with Breath of Corruption, and a handy utility spell in Teleport. His weapon is strong enough (combined with his spells) to put a serious beating on anything that gets too close to him, and on his feat turn he's going to spend 14 focus dealing some beatings.
Warjacks: Any non-character warjack is allowed in addition to the Cankerworm. That unfortunately leaves out the Deathjack, but it leaves more than enough choices for Asphyxious.
Obviously with the point reduction of Slayers, you'll want to take them. They are good melee jacks with 3 attacks to help clear out infantry, and potential to harm heavy jacks. Two open hands really come in handy from time to time too.
The Cankerworm is a requirement for the Theme List, and he's pretty cool- being able to take a weapon off of a wreck marker (once I destroy some of my opponent's jacks) is going to be a fun ability. Eating a wreck marker to heal is just an additional bonus.
The Corruptor is in there because he's a point cheaper than normal, and I can see him adding some utility. Burster will probably not get much use, but Distillation and Psycho Venom are going to be occasionally handy. RAT 5 will take some work to pull off hits though. Still, I can't think of a better army to actually run the model in.
The Deathripper is the only Arc Node I'm running (although the Corruptor can make temporary ones), which is very strange for my normal style. I think that with all the other things on the table, my opponent is going to be more focused on the scary things, and less focused on the arc node. And heck, if they want to take some shots at the arc node, that's fine too- just means the rest of my army is getting closer!
All these jacks, as I've noted, give me free wreck markers on the table to help power other parts of my army.
Units: Bane Thralls, Bile Thralls, Mechanithralls, and Necrosurgeons are allowed. As you can see, I only took Mechanithralls and some Necrosurgeons.
I'm not sure Bile Thralls really fit the theme of the army, and on top of that, I'm not sure there's much need for them. Yes, they're great for clearing out infantry, but I think I have enough tools to handle that. I'll re-evaluate after actually playing a game with the list though. Bane Thralls are one of my favorite units, but again, they don't have a role that I can't fill with something else. Also, neither of those two units gets a benefit from the theme list.
Mechanithralls are a great unit- they're so cheap! 2 attacks apiece give them a way to handle infantry, and their Combo Strike gives them an option against higher ARM models. Gaining Advance Deploy gets them up in the action faster (allowing them to keep up with the jacks). They gain additional help from the Necrosurgeons, who can potentially replenish the unit (as well as heal my caster). The Brute Thralls obviously add extra punch. 18 points for 32 models is a great deal- especially 32 models that will get my opponent's attention.
Solos: Moderate options here.
Bloat Thralls are one of the few Cryx artillery options, and hand us a way to deal with infantry, which may be a problem for this list, but I left them out for now. I think the list can handle infantry without their help. We will see.
I added two Machine Wraiths, not because I think they'll win me the game, but they are just so annoying to deal with sometimes. If I run against a jack-heavy army, I can hold two jacks down and force my opponent to waste focus getting them back, or force them to waste attacks damaging their own jacks to knock the Wraiths out. You can never tell what these guys are going to be able to screw over.
Necrotechs are a required part of the army, but are useful given the composition. Keeping my jacks healthy is a much needed skill given the number of jacks. Once the jacks are dead, spitting out a bunch of Scrap Thralls lets my jacks serve an extra purpose- those Scrap Thrall bombs add up! Starting with Wreck markers on the board means I can get Scrap Thralls out there early too.
Finally, there's a Skarlock. I take it in almost every army I'm allowed to.
Army Tactics: So I haven't played this yet, but I intend to shortly. This army has a bunch of models, plus the ability to create a few more. The jacks spearhead the assault, and should be able to either damage things in their way or disrupt my opponent's line. The Mechanithralls follow up, and swarm over my opponent's army, killing what they can. Everything else supports those waves. Asphyxious and the Skarlock support my front line with Scything Touch and Parasite (plus the occasional damage spell). The Necrotechs pick up a few wreck markers and send the Scrap Thralls forward (as well as repair jacks when they get to them). The Necrosurgeons keep the Mechanithrall units strong and heal Asphyxious from time to time. It should be a fairly durable army with a lot of threats.
I'll post some reports (and changes) once I get it in action.
Any thoughts?
Monday, February 22, 2010
MeleeCrons!
YEAH! Sweet sweet MeleeCron goodness.
I've been playing Necrons since they came out with their own codex- they were my first 40K army, and they've been the one I've run the most often.
However, Necrons are not a... hmm.. very dynamic army. Every army I've seen people run has been pretty much the same. Not for me. I decided to try to run a close combat- based Necron force.
Of course, this is generally not a good idea. Poor initiative, plus the fact that Necrons tend to start dropping FAST once they're in combat means that it's usually not good. With that said- it sure makes for an interesting army, and it can pull out some surprising wins! Honestly, it's usually a loss (sometimes badly!), but I have seen this army keep things very close and tense to the final end!
One note. I don't use a C'tan in this list. The C'tan is definitely a very very very scary item in close combat, and certainly would be useful in this list. However, with the points cost, you can buy a lot more Necrons, which may be the difference between keeping you in combat and not. Of course, I've tried this with both the C'tan, so I know they certainly can help (even Assault Terminators get nervous!).
Anyway, here it is, 2000 points of Necrons:
Necron Lord w/ Warscythe, Destroyer Body, Phase Shifter, Resurrection Orb - 210
8 Flayed Ones w/ Disruption Fields - 168
8 Flayed Ones w/ Disruption Fields - 168
11 Necron Warriors - 198
10 Necron Warriors - 180
10 Necron Warriors - 180
3 Wraiths - 123
3 Wraiths - 123
10 Scarab Swarms w/ Disruption Fields - 160
3 Tomb Spyder w/ 1 Particle Projector - 165
3 Heavy Destroyer - 195
2 Heavy Destroyer - 130
The Heavy Destroyers are my long-range tank destroying support, the Warriors sit back and hold/contest objectives, and everything else prepares for the glorious charge!
I'm hoping to get another game in fairly soon, so hopefully you can see this in action (against the new Tyranids hopefully!). Hopefully it goes well!
I would ask for thoughts, but really this is a list to keep me entertained until a new codex comes out. I expect it to be a little on the weak side. Doesn't matter though :)
I've been playing Necrons since they came out with their own codex- they were my first 40K army, and they've been the one I've run the most often.
However, Necrons are not a... hmm.. very dynamic army. Every army I've seen people run has been pretty much the same. Not for me. I decided to try to run a close combat- based Necron force.
Of course, this is generally not a good idea. Poor initiative, plus the fact that Necrons tend to start dropping FAST once they're in combat means that it's usually not good. With that said- it sure makes for an interesting army, and it can pull out some surprising wins! Honestly, it's usually a loss (sometimes badly!), but I have seen this army keep things very close and tense to the final end!
One note. I don't use a C'tan in this list. The C'tan is definitely a very very very scary item in close combat, and certainly would be useful in this list. However, with the points cost, you can buy a lot more Necrons, which may be the difference between keeping you in combat and not. Of course, I've tried this with both the C'tan, so I know they certainly can help (even Assault Terminators get nervous!).
Anyway, here it is, 2000 points of Necrons:
Necron Lord w/ Warscythe, Destroyer Body, Phase Shifter, Resurrection Orb - 210
8 Flayed Ones w/ Disruption Fields - 168
8 Flayed Ones w/ Disruption Fields - 168
11 Necron Warriors - 198
10 Necron Warriors - 180
10 Necron Warriors - 180
3 Wraiths - 123
3 Wraiths - 123
10 Scarab Swarms w/ Disruption Fields - 160
3 Tomb Spyder w/ 1 Particle Projector - 165
3 Heavy Destroyer - 195
2 Heavy Destroyer - 130
The Heavy Destroyers are my long-range tank destroying support, the Warriors sit back and hold/contest objectives, and everything else prepares for the glorious charge!
I'm hoping to get another game in fairly soon, so hopefully you can see this in action (against the new Tyranids hopefully!). Hopefully it goes well!
I would ask for thoughts, but really this is a list to keep me entertained until a new codex comes out. I expect it to be a little on the weak side. Doesn't matter though :)
Sisters of Battle, Fire and more Fire!
Alright, finally got around to writing up my 2000-pt Sisters of Battle list. I actually have a large part of this, but finally deciding the route I want to go will help me focus on what I build/paint/assemble to get it down.
I've been playing Sisters for almost as long as I've been playing 40K, I started them not long after starting my Necron army (so right after Necrons came out!). Once the new Witch hunters codex came out, I was really excited- being able to use Witch Hunters + Daemon hunters + Imperial Guard or Space Marines meant there were so many different ways I could run an army!
I've tried several different things during my time using them. Ran a 3 Daemonhost/Radical Inquisitor + sister support + Penitent engine/arco-flagellant list for a bit, just to really throw people into confusion. Really though, the best Sister lists seem to focus on short range firepower and plenty of flame templates.
Now, this is a fairly typical Sister list: plenty of Immolators, plenty of Meltaguns, plenty of flame templates, and an inducted Imperial Guard platoon for numbers. It should be able to handle most things my opponent throws on the table, and against infantry- heavy armies I should be able to do a LOT of damage right from the beginning. Combined with potent anti-tank abilities, I should be able to stay in any fight until the end!
The List:
HQ:
Palatine w/ Book of St. Lucius, Melta Bombs, Bolter, 5 Celestian Retinue w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 197
Elite:
5 Celestians w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 150
5 Celestians w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 150
5 Celestians w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 150
Troops:
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers w/ 2 Meltaguns - 70
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers w/ 2 Meltaguns - 70
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers w/ 2 Meltaguns - 70
Infantry Platoon (total 485 pts):
-Platoon Command Squad w/ Meltagun, Flamer, Chimera - 100
-Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera - 115
-Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera - 115
-Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3 Autocannons - 75
-Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3 Autocannons - 75
Fast Attack:
5 Dominions w/ 4 Flamers, Immolator - 156
5 Dominions w/ 4 Flamers, Immolator - 156
5 Dominions w/ 4 Flamers, Immolator - 156
Heavy Support:
Immolator - 65
Immolator - 65
Immolator - 65
The Stormtroopers head into the Immolators from the beginning. I will admit that some of the ideas are probably taken from someone else (maybe Stelek?). For instance, I never ran my Dominions with solely flamers- but the idea of doing so is so cool, how could I not want that? mmm... so many templates.
Well, there you have it. Now I just need to get to work getting it up and running so I can give it some games!
Also, I'm going to put pictures of them as I start getting them painted- I am painting them as part of the Order of the Bloody Rose, so red and more red.
I've been playing Sisters for almost as long as I've been playing 40K, I started them not long after starting my Necron army (so right after Necrons came out!). Once the new Witch hunters codex came out, I was really excited- being able to use Witch Hunters + Daemon hunters + Imperial Guard or Space Marines meant there were so many different ways I could run an army!
I've tried several different things during my time using them. Ran a 3 Daemonhost/Radical Inquisitor + sister support + Penitent engine/arco-flagellant list for a bit, just to really throw people into confusion. Really though, the best Sister lists seem to focus on short range firepower and plenty of flame templates.
Now, this is a fairly typical Sister list: plenty of Immolators, plenty of Meltaguns, plenty of flame templates, and an inducted Imperial Guard platoon for numbers. It should be able to handle most things my opponent throws on the table, and against infantry- heavy armies I should be able to do a LOT of damage right from the beginning. Combined with potent anti-tank abilities, I should be able to stay in any fight until the end!
The List:
HQ:
Palatine w/ Book of St. Lucius, Melta Bombs, Bolter, 5 Celestian Retinue w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 197
Elite:
5 Celestians w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 150
5 Celestians w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 150
5 Celestians w/ 2 Meltaguns, Immolator - 150
Troops:
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers w/ 2 Meltaguns - 70
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers w/ 2 Meltaguns - 70
5 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers w/ 2 Meltaguns - 70
Infantry Platoon (total 485 pts):
-Platoon Command Squad w/ Meltagun, Flamer, Chimera - 100
-Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera - 115
-Infantry Squad w/ Autocannon, Chimera - 115
-Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3 Autocannons - 75
-Heavy Weapons Squad w/ 3 Autocannons - 75
Fast Attack:
5 Dominions w/ 4 Flamers, Immolator - 156
5 Dominions w/ 4 Flamers, Immolator - 156
5 Dominions w/ 4 Flamers, Immolator - 156
Heavy Support:
Immolator - 65
Immolator - 65
Immolator - 65
The Stormtroopers head into the Immolators from the beginning. I will admit that some of the ideas are probably taken from someone else (maybe Stelek?). For instance, I never ran my Dominions with solely flamers- but the idea of doing so is so cool, how could I not want that? mmm... so many templates.
Well, there you have it. Now I just need to get to work getting it up and running so I can give it some games!
Also, I'm going to put pictures of them as I start getting them painted- I am painting them as part of the Order of the Bloody Rose, so red and more red.
Wednesday, December 30, 2009
My tentative Ogre Kingdoms list
Alright, my buddy Ben has been working on getting his Ogre Kingdoms playable and useful these days. He had a pretty poor start, so I figured this would be a fun challenge for myself as well. I have an Ogre Kingdoms army that I've never run, so this could be a chance to get some interesting games in. I don't have any dreams of beating current tournament lists, but maybe I can pose at least a challenge for some of them :).
Ogres are definitely not a top-tier army. They have poor shooting, mediocre magic, and close combat- their best thing- is still outclassed by several armies. Also, no flaming attacks, which is rough with all the regeneration out there. I tried to go for a lot of units, backed up with some useful shooting support in the form of Dogs of War cannons. There are some rumors that Dogs of War and Ogre Kingdoms will be combined, so I'll use that as part of my justification ;).
Here's the list:
Tyrant w/ Tenderiser, Heavy Armor, 2 Gnoblar Thiefstones, Luck Gnoblar - 291
Butcher w/ Hellheart, Tooth Gnoblar - 185
Butcher w/ Bangstick, Dispel Scroll, 2 Tooth Gnoblar - 190
Butcher w/ Bloodcleaver, Dispel Scroll - 180
3 Ogre Bulls - 105
3 Ogre Bulls, extra hand weapon - 117
3 Ogre Bulls, extra hand weapon - 117
6 Ironguts w/ Bellower, Standard Bearer, Rune Maw - 338
20 Gnoblar Fighters w/ Groinbiter - 42
20 Gnoblar Fighters - 40
20 Gnoblar Fighters - 40
2 Leadbelchers w/ Bellower - 120
2 Leadbelchers w/ Bellower - 120
3 Yhetees - 195
Dogs of War Cannon - 85
Dogs of War Cannon - 85
Total Army Cost: 2250
Tyrant and Bloodcleaver Butcher in the Irongut unit. Other Butchers in with the Ogre Bull units.
Mostly unassembled and unpurchased. Needs a lot of playtesting also. No idea how well it will work, but I'll certainly give it a shot!
Thoughts?
Ogres are definitely not a top-tier army. They have poor shooting, mediocre magic, and close combat- their best thing- is still outclassed by several armies. Also, no flaming attacks, which is rough with all the regeneration out there. I tried to go for a lot of units, backed up with some useful shooting support in the form of Dogs of War cannons. There are some rumors that Dogs of War and Ogre Kingdoms will be combined, so I'll use that as part of my justification ;).
Here's the list:
Tyrant w/ Tenderiser, Heavy Armor, 2 Gnoblar Thiefstones, Luck Gnoblar - 291
Butcher w/ Hellheart, Tooth Gnoblar - 185
Butcher w/ Bangstick, Dispel Scroll, 2 Tooth Gnoblar - 190
Butcher w/ Bloodcleaver, Dispel Scroll - 180
3 Ogre Bulls - 105
3 Ogre Bulls, extra hand weapon - 117
3 Ogre Bulls, extra hand weapon - 117
6 Ironguts w/ Bellower, Standard Bearer, Rune Maw - 338
20 Gnoblar Fighters w/ Groinbiter - 42
20 Gnoblar Fighters - 40
20 Gnoblar Fighters - 40
2 Leadbelchers w/ Bellower - 120
2 Leadbelchers w/ Bellower - 120
3 Yhetees - 195
Dogs of War Cannon - 85
Dogs of War Cannon - 85
Total Army Cost: 2250
Tyrant and Bloodcleaver Butcher in the Irongut unit. Other Butchers in with the Ogre Bull units.
Mostly unassembled and unpurchased. Needs a lot of playtesting also. No idea how well it will work, but I'll certainly give it a shot!
Thoughts?
Tuesday, December 1, 2009
LotR teaching armies
Alright, so I'm going to be teaching Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle game to a few of my friends, so I put together two 500 pt lists that I hope will be balanced against one another. I don't claim to have much experience with Lord of the Rings, so if anyone has some advice, I'd love to hear it!
Evil, Cirith Ungol w/ Nazgul allies:
Shagrat w/ Shield - 60
2/14/2 Nazgul w/ horse - 120
Mordor Troll - 100
8 Orc Warriors w/ shields - 48
8 Orc Warriors w/ spears, shields - 56
8 Orc Warriors w/ bows - 48
Orc Warrior w/ banner - 30
3 Warg Riders w/ 1 box, 1 shield - 38
Good, Tower of Echtelion w/ Rangers of Ithilien allies:
Faramir, Captain of Gondor w/ heavy armor, lance, horse - 90
Damrod, Ranger of Ithilien - 20
8 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/ spears, shields - 72
8 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/ shield - 64
Warrior of Minas Tirith w/ banner - 32
7 Knights of Minas Tirith w/ shields - 98
1 Knight of Minas Tirith w/ banner, shield - 39
10 Rangers of Gondor, 5 w/ spears - 85
I'm thinking I'll need to add another hero to the good force, something with some ability to combat the Nazgul's spells or handle the Troll maybe. Will have to give it a playthrough to see how well they interact with one another though.
After I get some games in with my friends, I have someone to go through the books and play the scenarios in them all. That's got me very excited :).
Thoughts?
Evil, Cirith Ungol w/ Nazgul allies:
Shagrat w/ Shield - 60
2/14/2 Nazgul w/ horse - 120
Mordor Troll - 100
8 Orc Warriors w/ shields - 48
8 Orc Warriors w/ spears, shields - 56
8 Orc Warriors w/ bows - 48
Orc Warrior w/ banner - 30
3 Warg Riders w/ 1 box, 1 shield - 38
Good, Tower of Echtelion w/ Rangers of Ithilien allies:
Faramir, Captain of Gondor w/ heavy armor, lance, horse - 90
Damrod, Ranger of Ithilien - 20
8 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/ spears, shields - 72
8 Warriors of Minas Tirith w/ shield - 64
Warrior of Minas Tirith w/ banner - 32
7 Knights of Minas Tirith w/ shields - 98
1 Knight of Minas Tirith w/ banner, shield - 39
10 Rangers of Gondor, 5 w/ spears - 85
I'm thinking I'll need to add another hero to the good force, something with some ability to combat the Nazgul's spells or handle the Troll maybe. Will have to give it a playthrough to see how well they interact with one another though.
After I get some games in with my friends, I have someone to go through the books and play the scenarios in them all. That's got me very excited :).
Thoughts?
Tuesday, October 20, 2009
Warhammer Empire
Alright, this is what I'm looking to run as my 'all-comers' army for Empire:
Arch Lector w/ Armor of Meteroic Iron, Holy Relic, Van Horstmann's Speculum, Great Weapon - 231
Captain (BSB) w/ full plate armor, Griffon Standard - 138
Wizard (lvl 2) w/ Doomfire Ring - 130
Wizard (lvl 2) w/ Rod of Power - 130
28 Swordsmen w/ full command - 193
9 Halberdiers (detachment) - 45
10 Crossbowmen - 80
10 Crossbowmen - 80
6 Knights w/ Full Command, War Banner - 203
19 Greatswords w/ Full Command - 220
9 Halberdiers (detachment) - 45
6 Handgunners (detachment) - 48
5 Pistoliers w/ musician - 97
Great Cannon - 100
Great Cannon - 100
Helblaster Volley Gun - 110
Steam Tank - 300
Total Army Cost: 2250
I'm not sure how it'll run, but I'll give it a shot once, and change it as I go (not against you Frans, I have other surprises!).
Thoughts? I have thoughts, but I'll run this once or twice before posting.
Painting: This army hasn't been started paint wise. It's mostly assembled, however.
Arch Lector w/ Armor of Meteroic Iron, Holy Relic, Van Horstmann's Speculum, Great Weapon - 231
Captain (BSB) w/ full plate armor, Griffon Standard - 138
Wizard (lvl 2) w/ Doomfire Ring - 130
Wizard (lvl 2) w/ Rod of Power - 130
28 Swordsmen w/ full command - 193
9 Halberdiers (detachment) - 45
10 Crossbowmen - 80
10 Crossbowmen - 80
6 Knights w/ Full Command, War Banner - 203
19 Greatswords w/ Full Command - 220
9 Halberdiers (detachment) - 45
6 Handgunners (detachment) - 48
5 Pistoliers w/ musician - 97
Great Cannon - 100
Great Cannon - 100
Helblaster Volley Gun - 110
Steam Tank - 300
Total Army Cost: 2250
I'm not sure how it'll run, but I'll give it a shot once, and change it as I go (not against you Frans, I have other surprises!).
Thoughts? I have thoughts, but I'll run this once or twice before posting.
Painting: This army hasn't been started paint wise. It's mostly assembled, however.
Sunday, October 11, 2009
My Dark Elves
This is the army list I'm quasi-running for my Dark Elves. Thoughts after:
Dark Elves Monster Heavy (2250):
Dreadlord w/ Repeater Crossbow, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Black Dragon, Crimson Death, Pendant of Khaeleth - 545
Master (BSB) w/ Lance, Repeater Crossbow, Manticore, Ring of Hotek, Armor of Darkness - 369
Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Musician - 117
Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Musician - 117
Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Musician - 117
Cold One Chariot - 100
Cold One Chariot - 100
10 Shades w/ Bloodshade, Great Weapons, Light Armor - 208
5 Cold One Knights w/ Full Command, Standard of Slaughter, Soulrender - 225
Hydra - 175
Hydra - 175
Total Cost: 2248 pts
This army has a lot of strengths.
It's extremely mobile. The slowest unit in the army is the Shades, but they are also the most maneuverable, and can start a lot closer to my opponent. Two flying beasties supported by a lot of fast units mean my opponent will be dealing with my army on my second turn where I want him to deal with it.
It's decent at shooting. Most things in the army shoot. There's almost 60 shots a turn, not counting the breath weapons. I don't look at the shooting as a primary way of dealing with opposing units, but it's a 'nice to have'.
It's great at close combat. This army can HIT. On the charge, almost any two (or three, since the army is quick enough to get where I need them to) units will be hitting, and together the results are devastating. I try to keep the Dreadlord and Master close by one another as support (and magic defense), and when the two enter combat together, they produce wonderful results. Everything else does just fine (except the Dark Riders, who provide vital flank support).
With that said, there's a HUGE weakness- magic. I only get my 2 dispel die, plus the defense from the Ring of Hotek. Some armies will be able to cast magic nearly unopposed (so long as they don't target anything near the Ring of Hotek). Lore of Beasts can really stall out my army if I don't get lucky with opponent miscasts.
Also, there's only two magic weapons in the army, meaning I'm looking at an uphill battle if a VC army runs a lot of ethereal stuff.
I'm not really sure what to change to address this. I might toy with dropping the Manticore, mounting the Master on a Chariot (and switching the Armor of Darkness for another magical weapon), adding a scroll caddy, and filling with Harpies. If that seems to work better, that's what I'll change the above list to do.
Painting Progress:
Dark Elves Monster Heavy (2250):
Dreadlord w/ Repeater Crossbow, Heavy Armor, Sea Dragon Cloak, Shield, Black Dragon, Crimson Death, Pendant of Khaeleth - 545
Master (BSB) w/ Lance, Repeater Crossbow, Manticore, Ring of Hotek, Armor of Darkness - 369
Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Musician - 117
Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Musician - 117
Dark Riders w/ Repeater Crossbows, Musician - 117
Cold One Chariot - 100
Cold One Chariot - 100
10 Shades w/ Bloodshade, Great Weapons, Light Armor - 208
5 Cold One Knights w/ Full Command, Standard of Slaughter, Soulrender - 225
Hydra - 175
Hydra - 175
Total Cost: 2248 pts
This army has a lot of strengths.
It's extremely mobile. The slowest unit in the army is the Shades, but they are also the most maneuverable, and can start a lot closer to my opponent. Two flying beasties supported by a lot of fast units mean my opponent will be dealing with my army on my second turn where I want him to deal with it.
It's decent at shooting. Most things in the army shoot. There's almost 60 shots a turn, not counting the breath weapons. I don't look at the shooting as a primary way of dealing with opposing units, but it's a 'nice to have'.
It's great at close combat. This army can HIT. On the charge, almost any two (or three, since the army is quick enough to get where I need them to) units will be hitting, and together the results are devastating. I try to keep the Dreadlord and Master close by one another as support (and magic defense), and when the two enter combat together, they produce wonderful results. Everything else does just fine (except the Dark Riders, who provide vital flank support).
With that said, there's a HUGE weakness- magic. I only get my 2 dispel die, plus the defense from the Ring of Hotek. Some armies will be able to cast magic nearly unopposed (so long as they don't target anything near the Ring of Hotek). Lore of Beasts can really stall out my army if I don't get lucky with opponent miscasts.
Also, there's only two magic weapons in the army, meaning I'm looking at an uphill battle if a VC army runs a lot of ethereal stuff.
I'm not really sure what to change to address this. I might toy with dropping the Manticore, mounting the Master on a Chariot (and switching the Armor of Darkness for another magical weapon), adding a scroll caddy, and filling with Harpies. If that seems to work better, that's what I'll change the above list to do.
Painting Progress:
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